Franklin Massey

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Posts by Franklin Massey

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  44

  What Jesus Said About the Flood

  by Franklin Massey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was reading this debate this morning (decent arguments on both sides and an overall respectful demeanor):.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/205158/1/look-it-wasnt-a-global-flood.

  much of the discussion revolved around other mentions of the flood in the bible.

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  Franklin Massey

  Now everybody hug.
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  12

  Bible fairy tale vs regular fairy tale

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  why do people suspend disbelief and accept fairy tales as told in the bible, yet accept that other, non-biblical fairy tales are just that, fanciful tales made up to entertain and/or teach a lesson?.

  take jonah and the whale (big fish - whatever).

  fairy tale.

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  Franklin Massey

  Undercover, our heads are in a similar place today:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/205222/1/What-Jesus-Said-About-the-Flood
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  26

  A former CO elder wants to speak with me. What do you guys make of this?

  by Piercingtheveil81 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a former co elder visited my grandmother, who studied years ago with jws, and said he wanted to speak with me.

  i da'd myself about two years ago from the org after 11 years.

  i was an ms and pioneer for 8 years and the whole bit.

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  Franklin Massey

  My two cents, talk to the guy. If you are leading a happier life now, let him know it. If you have achieved doctrinal clarity since leaving JWs, let him know it. Show him that an ex-JW can be happy and live a quality life. Address your doubts and issues with JW teachings in a reasonable, loving, respectful manner. Express confidence in your new beliefs. As Black Sheep said, ask him questions. Just don't attack him or make yourself appear to have superior knowledge. If you think this guy is a decent man, then he deserves your time. It may change his view as to what happens when someone leaves "The Truth." You may just give him something to think about after your discussion.
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  44

  What Jesus Said About the Flood

  by Franklin Massey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was reading this debate this morning (decent arguments on both sides and an overall respectful demeanor):.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/205158/1/look-it-wasnt-a-global-flood.

  much of the discussion revolved around other mentions of the flood in the bible.

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  Franklin Massey

  I was reading this debate this morning (decent arguments on both sides and an overall respectful demeanor):

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/205158/1/Look-it-wasnt-a-global-flood

  Much of the discussion revolved around other mentions of the flood in the Bible. For instance, Jesus words Luke 17:27 (NASB): "They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all." I'll point out the two extreme opposite sides of the debate.

  One side of the argument was that since Jesus mentioned it, it had to be true. True to the extent that Genesis says it is true, including that it happend on a global scale, with near total human destruction, and somewhere around 4500 years ago. I doesn't matter what science says because science can be wrong but the Bible is God's word and God is always right. If we have to, we'll jump through hoops to try to make sense of the overwhelming contrary evidence because there is no way that we can accept the account to be anything but literal. To do otherwise is to open up a can of worms and worms are like snakes and Satan was a snake so...OMG!!! Demons be gone! Demons be gone!

  The other side of the argument used scientific and geologic evidence to discredit the Genesis account as being literal. If what science says is true, and the Flood didn't happen the way that Genesis said, then Jesus must have been lying, and if Jesus was lying then the Bible is shot full of holes and not worth our time. Let's toss it out with yesterday's newspaper and join The Brights. Now, where's my big red "'A' for Athiest" lapel pin?

  I'm having fun with the extremes here and mean no disrespect to either party. In full disclosure, after having researched all things Flood for the last few years, I believe that it was not global, did not destroy all humans, and is part of a moral lesson/legend that was passed down orally in the surrounding cultures. With each passing generation the story became more fantastical, like a good game of telephone.

  But this isn't about my opinion. I want to throw something out here and let you gals and guys kick it around a bit. Suppose that Jesus and the people that he was talking to fully recognized the Flood story to be a myth, or fable. For instance, let's say the leader of a company addresses his workers on the subject of workplace productivity standards. He warns them against rushing through their tasks, for fear that they may burn out, make mistakes, or become careless in their duties. The company leader prefers his employees to work at a consistent, methodical pace, to ensure that the job gets done right. He concludes, "Remember the lesson of the tortoise and the hare: Slow and steady wins the race." The employees understand his direction since they recognize this popular fable. Only a fool would think that the boss had been witness to an actual arranged race with a talking turtle and rabbit.

  So when Jesus said, "Just as in the days of Noah..." he could have been reminding his listeners about the moral lesson of the Flood story. That being, do not be too wrapped up in the fruitless pursuits of life. If we recognize a higher calling, pay heed to that calling and try to help others find their way to a better existence. When a test arrives, the less distracted, more purpose-driven people will be the ones who are prepared to face the test. The ones who lived a selfish, egocentric life may collapse under the pressure of an unexpected trial.

  In this scenario, the Flood story still serves a purpose whether it actually happend or not; and Jesus is not a liar, rather a teacher of moral lessons. No hoops, no twisted logic, no need to throw away your Bible.
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  27

  CO visit last Tuesday- Platform announcement

  by DeeDubs in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we had the co visit in the cong last week.

  he reread the pioneer letter for april at the end of the meeting on tuesday, he basically stated he was looking especially forward to every elders and ms and their families application, and it would be nice to see out of the 150 publishers with the elders and ms and their families "taking the lead" if we could break 100 aux pioneers that month.

  you could hear a pin drop...it was a bit strong to say the least.

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  Franklin Massey

  During a recent meeting with the CO, one over-eager brother that just moved to our hall spoke up and said, "Last year in our old hall, all the elders, servants, and their families auxiliary pioneered one month." With the special arrangement, I was expecting the CO to say, "Hear that Brothers? Thats sounds like a good idea!" To my surprise, he said in a dry, unenthusiastic voice, "That's nice but we have our own unique set of circumstances in this hall so don't get your hopes up."
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  147

  Do You Hate The Jehovah's Witness Religion?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i see some here who seem to despise the religion.

  others seem to feel that witnesses are wacky but they don't hate them.. do you hate this religion?.

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  Franklin Massey

  No. I don't feel it is worth hating. Hating makes my vision cloudy. Hating takes too much effort and I have better ways to expend my energy. Like, helping people think for themselves, for instance.
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  23

  Why do the JWs have such an aversion to philosophy?

  by Darth Eowyn in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i mean, they seem to avoid it like the plague.

  i know people will say that they only need the bible to guide them in life...etc...but i contend that you cannot simply read the bible by yourself; at least without knowing where the philosophical principles contained within the bible come from.

  is this aversion of confusing philosophy with faith way over the head of most jws?

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  Franklin Massey

  I think most JWs would be surprised to find that the teachings of Jesus are included in basic college Philosophy discussions.

  Brotherdan, "You can lead a JW to truth, but you can't make him think," belongs on a coffee mug.

  Again WT hypocrisy rears its ugly head. JWs are taught to avoid philosophy because it comes from men, is empty, and asks one to question their beliefs (why would you question The Truth?). Yet if you are not a JW, you are asked to consider converting to a religion that comes from men, is empty, and asks non-JWs to question their beliefs (because, of course, you don't have The Truth, we do!).
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  54

  I am new here too!

  by NVR2L8 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for a long while i have been coming to this site on a daily basis and i think it is time to introduce myself.

  here we go: my parents learned the truth when i was 4 and i don't have childhood memories of how life was before they converted.

  i was a model jw child, although quite mischievous at school.

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  Franklin Massey

  Welcome. I'm new here too. Keep sharing your thoughts, feelings, and questions. This is a good place to work out some of the issues that you may not be able to discuss with JW friends and family.

  You mentioned that the brother who had the "Overlapping Generations" talk at your DC sounded like he was trying to convince himself. Same thing happened at my DC. It was embarassing. It went right over most people's heads. Since the DC, I've noticed that the ones that tried to jump on the wagon and learn the new light sound ridiculous when they attempt to explain it.

  About your wife...it seems you two have a strong foundation and have lived a good life together. This new circumstance may be a challenge but hang in there and be the most loving husband you can be. Remember that your wife is only doing what she has been told is right, which is, when things get tough, throw yourself into spiritual activity and wait for the blessings to make things better.
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  34

  my story, would like some advice

  by deservingone26 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  im looking for some advice.. so i grew up as a witness was baptized when i was seventeen, which by the way i was pushed into baptizm cuse my parents kept asking me when i was and threatned to not buy me a car if i didnt get baptized.

  since it was never in my heart i was never very dedicated and was disfellowshipped by nineteen i started the process of coming back but after bout four months i moved out.

  i started partying alot mainly with my other disfellowshipped friends and nonactive jw frien, we were drinking alot and smoking weed but soon i started feeling the need to go back so i started up at the meetings but i got bored and went back to my old ways, this has been what i have been doing for the last five years, partying getting drunk and drugs and then stopping and going back to the meetings for a couple months, the same process for last the last almost five years.

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  Franklin Massey

  Welcome. Like many other posters here have said, counseling, a new social circle, and some productive activities will be a big help. It's tough when you're lonely or bored. In that state, you're more susceptible to making poor choices. But you recognize that already, which is a big step. You have the knowledge that the party life is not the life you want to lead. So act on that knowledge. There is a lot of good that you can do in your community. Look for opportunities. What are your assets? What are your best qualities? Identify those and look for a way to share them with others. It's rewarding and a great way to meet good people. Keep posting and keep your chin up. You have to power to create the life that you want to live.

  Also, if your family hypocritically chooses to treat you differently than your sister, then they give up the privilege of asking you to play by their rules. Prove yourself to yourself, on your terms, not anyone elses.
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  56

  If you could ask one question to an active JW to get them to open their mind about their beliefs, what would it be?

  by Franklin Massey in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this question was posed to me by a poster named ice cream.

  i don't know my answer yet.

  it's one of those, "if you could have just one wish.." kind of questions.

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  Franklin Massey

  Nice, Palimpsest. Timely and straight to the point. "How is it that the Governing Body tells you to trust in modern science to help save your life through bloodless surgery, yet you refuse to believe in science about virtually anything else?"

  From what I understand, the most current story of the earth's creation from the Society is that the actual planet has possibly been here as long as scientists say (billions of years, perhaps?) but humans have only been here for 6,000 years. Again, your argument points out the obvious problem. Why agree with science in dating the planet earth, but not agree with science when they put dates on something that in theory, should be much easier to accurately date - like early man?